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Picking the right saturator and mastering tools?

Hi reddit how are you guys? (This is a repost from FL_Studio where no one answered my question and also I changed the questions after searching more mixing/mastering tools)
Lately I shifted my focus from producing to mixing and mastering, I learn online from "Mixing with Mike". Michael doesn't mix electronic music and he works with a lot of waves plugins that saturate and compress his stems to create an analog feel and add a lot of warmth and presence.
I use FL Studio, it has a great parametric EQ and a great multiband compressoExpander called "maximus". It also has a distortion plugin called WaveShaper that has a lot of control over the way it saturates the sound. But recently seeing a lot of tutorials on mixing and mastering I see a lot of people looking for specifically emulated saturators like tape/tube etc... I don't really know if I can achieve that sound with my stock distortion plugins and I don't think I developed an ear to recognize the difference, I failed emulating the "analog chain" I see people put on the individual and grouped stems, the waveshaper was too harsh or lacked "warmth". Although it could be my inexperience with using light distortion for mixing.
So I have been searching for the tools that would compress and saturate my sounds but I am completely lost now, not sure what tools do I need, how much control do I want, what I can and can't emulate using my stock plugins and what is essential and what is over priced snake oil.
I have been looking at these plugins:
  1. Saturn 2: it seems to have a lot of saturation presets so it might be the all in one tool for saturation (Tape, tube etc.), but it's super pricy... Does it really saturate better than a tape simulator by waves (for like 30 bucks)?
  2. V-comp: I understand that the fruity limiter is super clean and that the V-comp by waves could give me a warmer sound, I tried using MOLOT which is a free plugin but I could not get it to actually saturate my sounds in a nice sounding way... Are these vintage compressors snake oil? Are they relevant for electronic music? How is it saturating differently than a basic compressor with a separate distortion plugin on top?
  3. SSL G-Master Buss Compressor: buss compression is completely new to me, I never in my life tried to bundle sounds together and gluing them, this is a new concept for me. Why is this buss compressor an industry standard? Is there a way to emulate the sound with stock FL plugins? It's pretty cheap but do I really need it? Will Saturn 2 or an "all in one" plugin like Ozone do the same job?
  4. L2 Ultramaximize L3 Multimaximizer: I have no idea which brick wall limiter should I get, the L2 looks super simple while the L3 seems to give more control, I saw a video dissing the fruity limiter and I have no idea if I can maximize and master my sounds with stock plugins. I am open for any other suggestions. Many people recommend the FabFilter Pro-L2 but it costs 169 euros and I don't understand why should I use a limiter besides sausaging the master chain which I can do with a waves plugin for 30 bucks.
  5. Ozone 9: At first I thought it's an all in one master plugin, also has a lot of features that save time but take away the learning process (automated AI fix-your-song sliders). But it seems so different to me than opening a specific plugin for a specific usage (for example a buss compressor or a maximizer, both have a single job). If I do buy it do I need anything else? Is it just a master chain effect or can I use it to saturate or edit single instruments? Also the Neutron 3 makes me wonder if I should buy it with Ozone. If I'm already switching to this all in one shiny slider work flow I might as well get the tonal balance bundle for 699$ which is half my paycheck... I can get like 10 waves plugins for half the cost, and I feel like I could learn more from using the traditional "1 plugin, 1 purpose" workflow. On the other hand it might have more value if it actually saves me valuable time.
(TL;DR)Anyways, I have been only using stock plugins for 7 years and I hate surrendering to expensive third party plugins, but all mixing engineers talk about is the analog sound... Can I emulate it with stock plugins? If not what should I buy to minimize costs and maximize control? What essential third party mixing and mastering plugins should I buy?
Thanks :)
submitted by ronameleh to edmproduction

Has anyone figured out any kind of effective strategy for figuring out how get a consistently clear/professional/wide stereo field on the master (preferably with Ozone 9 imager and/or FLS 20.6) (looking for very experienced and credible producer for an answer)

I apologize in advance. This is going to be a friggin novel.
This is actually the second time I’m writing this post. It got taken down the first time since I posted a link. I’m new to reddit (not new new, just this is my first post), but did, infact, read the rules before posting. I respect the fact that subreddits have rules, I just thought posting a link to one of my songs as an example of the problem I’m having was a good enough reason to, but now I know it isn’t and I won’t do it again, even though it would probably help whoever might have an answer to my problem to get a better grasp on the specifics, but I can live with it. If you think you could help me after reading this and want a tangible example of the problem, plz message me.
(This first part is kind of just a little bio about myself so if you don’t care about my life story just skip down to the asterisks for the actual discussion of my problem)
I have been self-learning producing for over 4 years now, and I’ve become so obsessed with it that I want to absolutely perfect everything possible on the technical side of things before I focus more on the creative and actually release anything as an artist. I want to have the ability to execute my ideas the exact way I want them to be before I start really putting effort into it and I know that I can get to that point since my whole life I’ve been a tech wizard. People always ask me questions about random things having to do with technology and I almost always know something about it or give them my best guess and very few times am I far off.
I went to school for 3.5 years as a nuclear engineer major and decided I hated it and wanted more out of life than a mind melting career in a STEM industry. I basically slowly drifted from studying to producing during my free time until it was basically the only thing I did, which came to a breaking point where I pretty much purposefully started blowing off my college classes, because I would rather throw everything I have at what I really want while I’m young and then fail, than never even try to break free from this terrifyingly boring life plan that all of us are expected to settle with. I dropped out to pursue music and avoid getting stuck with a degree that I would feel obligated to use, then eventually become trapped, depressed, and full of regret. I have a decent job lined up at an electronics/robotics company that I plan to grind for a few years, save up for more high end music equipment, upgrade my computer, build a professionally effective home studio, and in the mean time continue to work on my creative process. But enough about my life, sorry if that was too much, I kinda just don’t have anyone who’s into producing that I can talk to so I kinda just unloaded lol.
I’m not a beginner. I know my way around a DAW really well (I use FL studio but plan to switch to Ableton at some point), and I’ve already had multiple people pay me to mix and master their stuff for them. That being said, I’m not ruling out the possibility of the mix being the essential problem, because I’m always second guessing myself, making sure there’s nothing I’m doing that’s hindering the quality of my work, but there has been multiple times (but not too many) where I feel like I got it right, and on the technical side of things, they held up pretty well when compared to professional tracks. So please, if you are barely into this learning process, (less than 2 years) don’t get cocky and try to tell me this is an easy thing to figure out, because I’m trying to reach the people who want to be (or already are) something other than mainstream SoundCloud bots who copy every YouTube tutorial by some absolute poser with click bait thumbnails and just recreate a marshmello or Martin garrix electro house track, then spam every social media and inbox they can fit their link into, and call themselves original. But if you are only a little but into your journey learning how to produce, my only advice that I could give you that I know it absolutely credible, is don’t automatically believe everything someone tells you, the only true way to get to the point you want to be is trial and error. That’s literally it. Just years and years of it.
Anyway onto the problem. Very rarely do I export a master that sounds perfect when it comes to the stereo separation(well at least in my opinion, some of my non-producer friends will tell me it sounds perfect, but all of you guys know that we always notice things they don’t). It seems like I can’t line up the frequencies the right way to get the width and space I want. You know how in professional songs you can kind of like clearly hear the exact location of each sound and it sounds really natural? Well, I kind of get this weird audio blurriness(?) effect. I’m pretty sure it has something to do mastering, since sometimes my mixes sound more clear than the master.
I know a lot of people are going to say “use your ears” but this is a problem I have been having for a long time(close to a year, maybe longer) and it’s only now that I’ve finally turned to the Internet for help since it is basically the last significant technical issue I have, except maybe super advanced sound design. I know that there is no perfect recipe to get a perfect stereo shape for any given mix, since mixes can be drastically different, but there has to be some kind of method to the madness.
Also to be clear - my masters don’t sound bad at all, it’s just it feels like I can’t get the stereo separation quality just the way I want it, so it’s just so frustrating. I want it be 10/10 on the clarity scale, but I’m stuck around an 8-9/10.
Ozone 9 update added Velvet Noise as an option that you can use as opposed to Haas. I’ve done some research on velvet noise and it seems more promising than Haas when it comes to mono compatibility, but the problem is that the way it effects the width (in magnitude and other ways) is noticeably different than Haas from Ozone 8 (which I’ve been using for a long time so I’m a little lost). Has anyone found velvet noise to be considerably better in any way?
I have a few theories on what I think the problem is: 1) just plain old ear fatigue after spending multiple attempts hours at a time making slight changes on every parameter of the imager. As well as having no real strategy as to where to begin. 2) some plugin in my master chain before Ozone is glitching/causing problems with the stereo shape which is makes it harder when I get to the imager. 3) I’ve been told to put the imager as the last module (before the maximizer) on ozone. (Is that wrong?) 4) {least likely} something in the way I mix is the problem. (I maybe use too many high passes instead of low shelves which is causing phase issues?) 5. I’m making too drastic of changes on the imager. (Some videos show guys going as far as like 50-60% on the high end slider, but whenever I do that I can’t get any of the rest of it to sound right)
Here are my main questions:
1) is it always a good idea to use all 4 bands in the imager? 2) for the band separators, is the learn algorithm trust worthy? Is there another strategy I could implement to check it? 3) is 6.0ms a standard of some kind? Are there situations where it’s a good idea to lower it or higher it? [NOTE: Sometimes it will sound good(but in different ways if that makes sense?) in various locations on this slider. 4) are there any parameter values for anything on the imager that it is ALWAYS a bad idea to go above/below? 5) sometimes I put the high mid slider below both the high end and low mid slider for more clarity and less harshness. Does this only work in certain situations? (Sometimes it ends up having a negative effect) 6) I usually mono the low end frequencies(20-75ish Hz) of my kicks/subs/certain low synths IN THE MIX, so that I can play with the low end slider in the master imager in order to make sure the song doesn’t sound flat/thin. Can this cause problems? 7) are mid/side EQs a good idea on masters? Does this help with stereo separation or hinder it? Also what are some common elements that usually benefit from a mid/side EQ? (This is a realm I haven’t explored too often) 8) how large of a difference between band slider values is too large? (I’ve heard and seen a lot of conflicting theories on this one)
Some closing notes: 1) I make what I guess you could call electronic, and maybe the fact is that this is just something I have to figure out on own since I like to use unique sounds in different ways so that it doesn’t sound mainstream (I want my music to be noticeably different while at the same time familiar and appealing to the masses -> HUGE FLUME FAN) and most of the advice on the internet is bias toward mainstream EDM or just really situational and overall not consistent. 2) I have really nice production headphones so that is definitely not the problem. 3) My usual master chain that I’ve changed and added to over the years (plz critique if you notice any potential issues): - EQ (To cut unused frequencies at top and bottom of spectrum) - tape machine (for slight saturation and warmth) - multi band compression (I use Maximus, and have started to mess around with the saturation feature to soft clip the highs, I’m not sure yet if this is making the highs less harsh without sacrificing dynamics like I want it to do or if it’s causing all sorts of problems) - sometimes I use Gulfoss which is an algorithm-based dynamic EQ-type plugin - compressor with a mix glue preset (which I tweak) - De-esser (usually very low dry/wet ratio, just to take away a little bit of the unwanted noise/harshness) - sometimes a soft clipper (I check to make sure if this helps with getting the desired loudness or just ends up creating too much unwanted distortion or takes away from dynamics) - Ozone 9 1) tape saturation (usually around 0.5-1db gain, then I mess around with the tone and low end and high end sliders) 2) EQ (if the helper makes crazy changes on low end or high end i usually take it off since it’s probably because of the first EQ cuts) 3) dynamic EQ (the helper usually does a decent job, and the new features on Ozone 9 make it a lot easier and faster to make sure the dynamics are where they are supposed to be and the magnitudes are not too ridiculous) 4) vintage limiter (tube most of the time) 5) imager* 6) maximizer (usually IRC 3 or 4, I’ve started to push it a little more to get the loudness I want and it seems to be working but I’m also not sure how to configure the stereo options for the transient and sustain sliders, like whether or not they should be linked or not in different situations)
I’ve messed around with the exciter a few times and usually I only have good results with the low end but with the mids it usually doesn’t add anything noteworthy and I think through out the whole master chain I do too much to the high end for it to be possible for the exciter to do anything but cause unwanted distortion and harshness. I also will use the vintage compressor on occasion, just because sometimes I need to target certain areas that Maximus wasn’t able to.
Well if you actually end up reading all of this THANK YOU and I appreciate it a lot! It’s just a very specific and complicated problem that I’m not sure many ppl have run into and I have been struggling with and getting extremely frustrated over it for a while. Even if you can only maybe answer one of these many questions or have any kind of educated guess please don’t hesitate to comment. I’ve gotten to this point on my own, but at some point in a producers life he’s gonna have to ask for help, it’s inevitable.
good luck to you all and your individual projects as well! Happy Memorial Day!
EDIT: Thank you guys for commenting, and again I apologize for the length of the post (lmao) I was on a really long car ride and on adderall so I guess you could say I was pretty focused on getting my point across.
After reading the comments I really think you guys are right. I've kind of been leaning on mastering and expecting it to give me more drastic results than it should/is capable of doing. I need to focus more on individually imaging stuff that needs tweaking in the mix, stop overworking myself on the imager on the master, and make sure my panning is wide enough in the mix to give the elements the space they need. I haven't mastered a song since before I posted but when I do I'm sure I'll at least get some kind of an improvement. Thanks again, I'm starting to get more involved with Reddit and I really like it, especially this subreddit. Everyone is really understanding and considerate :)
submitted by vinnysbeats to edmproduction

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