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Ok, this is going to likely be one of my longest Reddit posts ever. Since there are many new players to the community, I'm first going to explain who I am, and what I've done while playing battle legion, then I'm going to talk about how the game's changed. From when I started playing, specifically looking at the monetisation. Right, let's get on with this.


I'm Greenfoot5, to some, the name is enough, others know some about me, others know little. I began playing in Era 1, Season 1, update 1.0. On Sunday of the first week. On the 31st of March 2019 (roughly) prior to ulther and dmund starting. Some players started earlier than me, but I also haven't really officially taken a break from Battle Legion while I've played. Ok, so what have I done during that time other than played?
I started early with a wiki. This is now the third version of the wiki I've started. The second version lasts a whole year, and was the source of much information and helped many users. We got around 200 visits a day. The new wiki isn't quite ready yet, but can be found at https://www.battlelegion.wiki Several users have helped in adding information, updating it as well as
I also created BattleBot. It's a discord bot that's used in 12 servers including the official server. It's open source and I along with QoO have put a lot of effort into it. You can check out the code here if you're interested: https://github.com/Greenfoot5/BattleBot Note that the repo was originally private so some code can't be seen there.
I run the Battle Legion Community Discord, formally known as the Battle Legion Wiki Discord. It's the largest community discord, that's hosted competitions, the tournament, now also home to the discord side of the subreddit, BattleBot support and also discussion on the wiki.
Of course, I also run this subreddit. Not originally but I took it over a while ago and have been running it since with some help from others too. I am also still looking for more applicants to be moderators! It's a pinned thread!
I am also leader of The Tavern, The Tavern 2 and The Tavern 3. With TT being the top clan in Battle Legion for 4 seasons running, TT2 top 4 during those 4 seasons too. Managing all three takes time, we're also the only pre-clan clan that still exists/is active. By this, I mean I made the discord community in preparation for clans before they were released.
There's still more. I am currently the only community moderator on the official Discord, the only moderator on the official YouTube for streaming (not that there's too much there). This does mean I am the only moderator during the weekends on the official discord though. And I've also send more that 12 thousand messages on the official Discord, which is at least 3 thousand better than the next person.
I think that's everything. Oh! I also do the occasional stream. That's everything. If I've missed anything, please let me know.

Monetisation History

This is going to be a personal history. From my experience. There will be some opinions.
Before I start though, I'd better explain what the game was like. So, there were 6 ranks, 1-5 and Eternal Battlegrounds. Ranks 1-5 were like an extended tutorial with rank 6 being the full game, with rating and seasons/eras. To advance through 1-5 you just needed xp and bonus xp, not rating. Shards didn't exist, and you collected units through ranks (which were from one of the 5 ranks, sizes didn't exist). You also collected skins through the wagons. Each wagon took 4 hours to arrive, and 15 keys to unlock. Units only required gold to upgrade up to rank 7 (or mastery). For mastery level, they required mastery tokens, which you got one for spending 50 gold. Tomes (old powerstones) had upgrades, up to level three, each costing more tomes to apply. It was 100% Free to Play, with season pass, being very different, gems not available and the cost for the season path was just 5000 gold. You could also buy mastery tokens from the shop for gold at a reduced rate.
First monetisation step brought in the shop, and gems. This changed the season pass cost, and brought in the first stage of monetisation. The season pass was (800?) gems to begin with and cost roughly $10. It could also be purchased again if you completed it. This was what players had requested when Irmostoi (the lead developer) asked. Many complained about the price, forgetting we had actually been asked what we thought in the first place. This season also brought in the first cosmetic bundle for 2200 gems (with individual purchases available). There were several bundles to follow. I think about 5, then the seasonal ones only after that. Prior to the 2019 halloween bundle, they were all gem costs.
After many about the season pass cost, it was halved to $5. Many had unfortunately forgotten (myself included) that it was the price we originally suggested. You could still earn it back after completing it, plus some extra gems on top. I don't believe you could spend gems on anything other than those cosmetic bundles.
There was a lot of complaints about the shop, causing Teep and a few other top players to leave. Not many though. This also saw the removal of the game from Testflight and Hockeyapp. The main reason people had an issue is because the game was still in early access. However, many players kept on playing (if they could). The shop was likely introduced as Traplight needed money and their reserves were running out.
With the addition of the second cosmetic bundle, two new items were added to the shop. You could now purchase gold and auto-spin tokens with gems. Yes, this was the first introduction of auto-spin tokens, with a cap of 999. This means you can no longer spin forever. There was also double the spin token cap in the barrel. The spin tokens annoyed many users, and caused some to start using auto-spinners. However, it was quickly realised that for most you wouldn't use all 999 spin tokens easily. This also lead to shorter, more frequent play sessions according to Irmostoi in a later AMA.
Moving on, at some point, refund scrolls were added. This allowed you to earn back the tomes you spend on a unit. I can't remember the original ratios as they changed when the tome system was changed. I can't remember if this was added to the shop for gems straight away either.
Next up, The Stage. Many users will recognise this feature, watch an ad for a reward, but it looked a little different. There were three steps, each giving more rewards than the next, and could be one of the following:
Gems, Gold, Bonus Rank Points (old bonus xp), Auto-spin Tokens and Scrolls of Refund Skill.
Cooldown was started at 8 hours. This also came with the third cosmetic bundle.
Still more to come, this is more of a time update. It's update 4.0, Traplight announce their focusing work on Clans Phase 1, and the new Unit Progression system. This also announced that there were no new eras, and they would cycle until they got round to developing more. Also tweaked the ad cooldown to 4 hours from the original 8.
Next season, the fourth bundle was added. Sometime around here, the gold limit was reduced, and it was secretly reduced multiple times. It was only noticed by players because it had been significantly reduced. Which caused some backlash.
Now, as a brand new community feature, Answer and win was created. 85 people took part in the first A&W, with a raffle for 500 gems. These happened once a week for a while.
At update 4.2, two new cosmetic bundles were added, pristine and corrupted nature packs, each granting three cosmetics. This also marked the release of the test server for the first time. It contained the new unit progression system.
After the third answer and win, a new competition was created, for 1500 gems, to rename Answer and Win, u/Greenfoot5 won, with "Question of the Week" (it was a weekly thing)
It was finally the end of October with the first real life event bundle, the halloween bundle. Just three items this time, I think it was still purchasable with gems, so you could have saved them up from the season path.
On the 8th of November, QotW had a brand new challenge, to write a short story. This would grant 1000 gems on top of the 500 for the raffle. Three winners were chosen (I was one of them).
Update 5.1. The Unit Progression Update. Long awaited and tested for many weeks, it was finally here. I'll try to summarise them quick. - Levels increased from 7 to 15. - Mastery tokens removed - Rank based wagons were removed and replaced with size based wagons - Shards were now required to unlock new units, and level them up. - Skill slots now unlocked at levels 4, 8 and 12 rather than all at level M (or 7). - You can now purchase tomes and wagons. The wagons currently in the shop are the same as current. - Introduced the cosmetic wardrobe. - Eternite prior to this update is called Pristine eternite, and normal eternite is the system you know now. You used pristine eternite to buy era based cosmetics. - Season pass had it's price increased to 550 gems. Rewards were changed so you can still rebuy if you completed it. - Tome levels were removed. All tome amounts were divided by 13. - Scroll price in shop was updated and you can no longer earn them from ads. - Auto-spin token cap was reduced to 200. - Question of the Week raffle rewards increased to 1000 for the season pass and then some.
In the next season, a new wagon was added, the gold wagon. This is because people had a lot of gold as of v5.1. This allowed people to earn some shards quickly.
A few days before the next season, the test server is reopened! This was strictly to test the new clan system but was also a mini-sandbox server that many had fun in.
With update 5.3, a few shop updates happened. A holiday bundle was added, this was purchased using real money, making it the first bundle to be purchased with real money, rather than gems. There were three offers available. Next, wagons could be ordered quickly with gems, giving you another way to spend the gems. Finally, the season pass was changed to be purchased with real money. This meant that in the players original request for the season pass, nothing remained. The pass could not be earnt again if players completed it.
Not a monetisation addition, but a huge step forward for the community, the official roadmap was added. This was on the 21st of January, 2020.
Another brand new event for gems, on the 12/2/2020, ulther announced the first fight night. The format would change over the next few months to the format you know today.
All was quiet for a while, until the announcement of the new rank system. This would be the first time a major change would not go into public testing (or even testing with the senior testers). This was announced two seasons prior to the update. Further information and warnings were given before this update took place. Pristine eternite and era cosmetics would be removed, tomes are now stones and become era based.
Then update 8.0 arrived. It's really long, read the full notes yourself. However there are a few major monetisation things I want to add. - Royal Shipments. - Seasonal Powers - Gem prices of timers reduced.
Little was changed monetisation wise for a bit. Then update 8.2 arrives. This reduces gem rewards on the quests and stones removed from medium and large wagons.
In the next update, gold limits and gains were increased, along with the addition of another cosmetic wardrobe.
First Time Spinners event happened. Hopefully you know about that.
Finally, most recently, the post that inspired this, wagon gains were changed. I shouldn't need to explain this one.

So. Where's the feedback!?

Alright, alright. I wanted everyone to understand my stance, and what it might mean if I said "I quit." I've been through a lot. It's taken me about 2 hours to go through the whole of the announcements channel just to write this post. Alright.
So, when the shop originally released, several players were upset. Myself included. I created a "secret" channel in the BLW Discord. And we complained together, some left, but nothing really happened.
In January, I wrote this: https://bit.ly/2SrnWzd
For the first point, this has kinda happened. There have been no secret updates that we didn't know of, and the streams have been a great teaser for the new content. But remember the roadmap I mentioned earlier? The updates are less frequent than once a month. I even began to setup a Community Roadmap so that players had something to refer to, I just haven't had time to update it (as this is, at the end of the day, a hobby).
For the second point... It's gotten worse, with poor balance changes (you knew SP was poor, and still argued that there wouldn't be "design changes" made mid season. Update 1.2.1. A hotfix was sent round to fix FW because he was overpowered. On top of that, the gold shortage means you only upgrade the units in your current army, and have none left over if you want to change. I've talked more about flexibility here: https://www.reddit.com/BattleLegion/comments/h9mp78/you_should_have_a_shortage_of_shards/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
For three, this issue has been fixed, because people struggle to get up as inactive players can use units from higher ranks. I talked about this issue a little here: https://www.reddit.com/BattleLegion/comments/gxyajl/you_should_be_able_to_go_down_in_rank/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
For four. I don't feel that I've been placed first. In fact, in the last few updates, I have not had the most enjoyment, nor the best experience. It's in your guide to parents. I've explained my opinions on the evernote page. I'm not going to bother repeating it here.
For Monetisation. "Traplight is on a mission to empower mobile players in a way no-one has done before." This is written on your Facebook page, and yet... The shards system is sooo similar to Clash Royal, the new wagon system is basically Clash Royal's system, Ranks are basically Clash Royal's arenas. The progression path, Clash Royal, Random Dice. Season Pass, Fortnite's battle pass, Clash Royal's pass. These are major mechanics that seems like you've just changed how battles work. You truly have something special here. The core game of make an army and spin is like no other game. Many players have looked to find a better one (specifically after certain monetisation features) and haven't found one. Please, please, please don't fuck it up. I would like to say, in your defence, that according to ulther, you cannot support the game on cosmetics alone. Fair enough. However that doesn't mean you have to create features that drive away the player-base and makes long term players quit.
Away from the evernote, WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE BALANCE CHANGES!? Anyway...

What can be done?

This will be me, just my opinions, what can help, what has been suggested, what might not work. For background, I take a real interest in game design, I watch GMTK and have attempted to make a few games of my own. I also paid a little attention to indie games and a game developer discord. This doesn't make me an expert, but I'm also not ignorant.
Let's start with monetisation. Specifically, the season path. The has likely been your best source of income for the game. It's truly amazing. I love the value it grants, and I've suggested these changes a few times, but I'm gonna do it again. With some more explanation this time.
  1. Make the season path at least double the length. I am literally a lazy player. I don't even log on sometimes, I have three accounts. I can get halfway through Darktonians season path, just by playing a few hours on two days. I don't know the actual stats on how many people actually complete it, but doubling the length makes it harder to complete, allows for more freedom on what to add and makes it a real challenge to complete. To help this, it may be good to tweak the path gaps so it's not double the xp required to complete it, but it should still be a challenge. This also increases the path's value a lot. This also gives players motivation to come online more to collect their bxp as they'll need it to complete that path.
  2. Make the cost gems. This means, you can earn the pass back if you complete it. However, I'd guess you could keep the x8 value, so you could make it about 1500 gems? This means that new players who save all their gems won't reach it until a few seasons in. But can still purchase it. It also means that players who do regularly complete the pass get to keep earning it. Yes, it's a loss in money for some, but if you just miss out on completing the pass, after purchasing it, wouldn't you spend a few coins to get the season pass next season? You could make the money back with the alternative methods later. This idea was mostly inspired by Vainglory, the pass was hard enough to complete and gave out some massive rewards. This also gives free to play players a chance. The season path has soo much value tome wise you're rather behind if you don't purchase it.
Another source of monetisation is the eternite system. But, it's not very good at the moment. Add a protection system in! There are two ideas:
  1. Bring back pristine eternite. A resource you earn from getting dupes. If you collect enough, you can just buy a cosmetic without having the randomness. You may have to make the pristine wardrobe specific or tailor the prices correctly so that people don't just buy the classics wardrobe to get pristine for the mechine/merfolk wardrobe.
  2. After x common dupes, you get a guaranteed common. After x mythic dupes, you get a guaranteed mythic. This means you don't spend several months (like I did) just hunting for one skin. In my case it was the punk skin and it has made me hate the system.
Several players have voiced concerns about the truly random nature of the wardrobe. People like me who complain about how many they've opened to get the last skin don't help things. If I can tell someone that they're guaranteed to get a new skin after x dupes, they'll go away happy. You may actually get people purchasing eternite (I can't imagine you get many, if any). If players like the game, they'll also be more inclined to purchase.
Next up. Unit Upgrades. This is the main focus for your monetisation. Yet, it's still as shit as all the others. I try to avoid swearing, but it's just so infuriating. Anyway, I don't have any suggestions for this. You need to have some way of progressing otherwise it's boring, you need to make sure that players feel like they're constantly progressing, but need to get better to progress more. If I could solve this issue in a better way, I'd be off making my own game. This one's up to you lot. But, also bear in mind, you need the system to not lock players into one army too harshly as otherwise once they get bored of that army and can't switch, they bore of the game and leave. Likely what happened to the recent TT leavers. However, you could decide not to make this your primary area for income. Thus making the progression system less driven by money, and more by getting better at the game and not waiting for hours. The wagons system has dropped progression speeds by 1/3 and has pissed off many players, old and new. According to dmund, it's unlikely you'll go back. There were flaws with the old system, but it's about improvement. This system is not an improvement on the old system, and I don't know how it could be changed to be an improvement.
Gem wagons. These are unappealing. Many top players in the community don't suggest buying them for several reasons. Mainly, for two reasons. It's too random and there's no gold. The gold's an easy fix, add some in. Randomness is harder. I could recommend some of Clash Royal's chests, but that's a little hypocritical since I've just complained about copying them. But giving players a choice of shards, or guarantee could be nice. Joker shards have been suggested before, you can collect the shards at a rare chance, and then use them to upgrade anything.
Offers. Offers are great. But you can have too much of a good thing. Daily offers that spam me, daily, popups with new offers, I think I've got free stuff from a royal shipment? Oh no, it's an offer, reached a new rank? Here's an offer. You're just devaluing your normal items. Stop. Imo, remove daily offers. An offer should be a special thing. If you just removed daily offers, everything in the shop would increase in value. Keep offers a rare thing. For when you reach a new rank, a small chance from a royal shipment. And perhaps for real life events. BLM and PrideMonth are perfect for offers, big offers, with perhaps 50% going to charity. Who doesn't want to support a charity (yes, I know companies milk it, but come on? It's a golden opportunity). But just removing daily offers would be enough imo.
Finally, gold limits and auto-spin tokens? I understand stopping players from getting burnt out, but like timers in XCOM 2, they just annoy the player. Yes, protect the player from themselves, but do it in a way that makes them enjoy the game even more. Good design goes a long way and truly makes a game stand out.


Ok, enough about monetisation. Let's chat balance. I mentioned earlier v1.2.1 proves that OP hotfixes happen. They are a good thing. SP and RDs desperately needed a hotfix, they were broken. I played when AAs first got effect tomes. RD and SP metas have been way worse. I get that tomes make it hard to balance, but seriously!? I could moan about this for hours.
caKe made an interesting comment about a "senior advisor" group that Traplight could use to get feedback from. Many likely don't know this, but on the Battle Legion Community Discord, all players who have obtained any #1 title, are called a lord (after the first title, Lord of Winter) and gain access to the lords channel. Traplight also have access to this channel. Traplight have all created a private channel on the official Discord server for Battle Sages. "A special role that is given to knowledgable and helpful members of the community." On top of that, there are also the senior testers. I feel the lords channel is best, as it isn't possible for it to become a friends club. The one specific requirement means people know what they have to do to get in, and also means there's no question of if someone should get access. However, you must also bear in mind that win and use rates have to be compared across the board. Just because bombot isn't used at the top that much, doesn't mean it isn't super effective in the starting ranks. But it would be good to get an idea on what players are having issues with.

Traplight's response

I understand you normally take time to respond to things, but remember this ulther? https://canary.discordapp.com/channels/439334026373890050/439334622375968771/656071541053980683 cause I do now. I know it's busy, but just a few small updates to the Discord, which you've said are needed would be wonderful. Even if it's just adding in some new Sages and adding in some more moderators. The second would really help me.
Response to bugs has been great and response times to any requests I've made has been really quick. But suggestions could do with more of a response. However, I also know this may not be possible with the fact they go to the design team, they get developed more and become something different.

Community's Response

This part's to the community. I'm not going to pick on a few people here but I know this has been happening. Not because there's an issue as such, but because you could respond better.
Please, if one of Traplight is responding, play nice. I'm not saying don't moan, but you can moan in a nice way. Any complaints do get passed on, but it's likely that the language in the complaint will be made nicer when it's forwarded onto the devs. Remember the human. Even if that human annoys you, play nice. For me?
For those that say wait for them to respond, sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad. If it's during work hours, there's no point. Traplight can respond when Traplight responds. Also, for certain things, they will be discussed in Traplight's Slack to create the correct response. Allow them time to do so.
As always, READ THE PINNED MESSAGES probably 25% of my messages are repeats or me saying roughly the same thing. It saves me time, you time and Traplight time, thanks.


If you managed to read that all, thanks so much. Please leave comments about what I'm right and wrong about, or if you have a good way to monetise something that doesn't annoy the player. Also, please share this, if you have a translation of this, or something, I'll find a place to put it (of if you've got a document) DM me on Reddit, or Discord and I'll link it. I could also leave a sticky comment. I'll think of something if anyone bothers. Other than that, enjoy the game.
https://bit.ly/2N3i2An <-- Sharing link

Me quitting

I almost forgot to say this as I'm almost 4 hours into writing this. I have said I would quit twice in the entire time I've played Battle Legion. Once was for April Fools (I got many of you on Discord) and the second one was not because of the Soul Pylon release. But due to the poor responses of maybe we'll balance it and that design changes don't happen mid-season. That's what made me want to quit. I still remember when I first joined, I had a really nice chat with Irmostoi, I know that isn't possible anymore as the game has grown in size so much, but that level of communication and the understanding I gained from chatting about the gold limit was really insightful. But if the game keeps going in the direction it's going with monetisation, I'll leave it.
submitted by Greenfoot5 to BattleLegion

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